MLB Trade Rumors
some amigos don't think 2018 important in the scheme of things - ?!

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MLBTR sez:

  • There was some buzz last month about the Mariners discussing a trade for Cole Hamels, though the Seattle Times’ Ryan Divish hears that the Mariners’ “interest was greatly overplayed.”  Whatever talks the M’s and Rangers had about Hamels could have been simply due diligence on the part of Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto, who “checks in on every player and will never toss away any proposal immediately.”
  • The Mariners’ general need for pitching is further explored by Divish as part of his mailbag piece, as he isn’t sure Seattle will necessarily target a starter.  For one, a clear top-of-the-rotation arm may not be available.  The team’s search for such a pitcher is further complicated by the fact that some members of Mariners ownership and the upper-level management team aren’t keen on acquiring players who are only under contract for the rest of this season (i.e. Hamels or J.A. Happ, another pitcher linked to Seattle on the rumor mill.) 
  • It should be noted that Hamels is technically under control for 2019 via a club option, though at a steep cost of $20MM.  As for a more controllable arm on a frequent Mariners trade partner, Divish doesn’t believe the M’s have the prospect depth to obtain Chris Archer from the Rays.

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If the M's ownership, or parts of it, are thinking that THIS season is no big deal in the grand scheme of things, then I'd say .... they really love their 5-year prospectus.  Better than I do....  wouldn't a playoff appearance, and a drive deep into them, go a long ways towards re BRANDING this outfit?!

Funny I should have mentioned that the M's could withstand a "10 of 13 losing streak" specifically. :- ) Note that the M's can still play -1 under .500, and win 90 games.  Last time a 90-game winner missed the playoffs was?  Or, to put it another way, look @ the pesky rodent A's roster.  Can you see them playing .500, much less winning 90?

The rotation is running on fumes as it is.  A Cole Hamels or Woody Harrelson would go a long ways towards refreshing it.

But, odd that high-IQ amigos would look at this team, this season, and this 20 years and go "Ah, who cares about 2018."

.....

Of course Divish doesn't believe the M's have the prospects to get Chris Archer.  He's an objective journalist.  However, if Dr. D offered you

  1. Ben Gamel (club controls)
  2. Ryon Healy or Dan Vogelbach, your pick
  3. Kyle Lewis
  4. Evan White
  5. Sam Carlson 
  6. Braden Bishop

That 6-for-1 wouldn't get it done?  No, then we'd switch to the 5-year prospectus on beating the M's up for overpaying.

BABVA,

Dr D

PS don't get your underwear in an uproar.  It wouldn't take anything like that 6-for-1 to grab Archer.

PPS See the Zee had the following, relatedly, up but caught in the trap:

I've played organized: baseball, football, ice hockey...intramural basketball, soccer - lots of team sports. Thought about throwing down with the rugby team in college but then my nose is too big (would have been broken for sure). Still playing hockey and getting closer to the 50-year mark on that. This isn't a scientific comment but rather a human dynamics one: Team mojo is a big deal - so big that it will make a less talented team (than its direct competition) a better team than it should be. And that's your 2018 Mariners.

Mojo comes and goes during a season, even for the teams that have it in volumes. There's no way over a 16-game, much less an 80- or 162-game season to stay on top. The Ms are proving that right now.

When I've been on teams that have the Mojo, it makes the confidence level soar. The impact can be seen most accutely on the performance of role players - they're playing above their normal talent level. When the Mojo wanes, the role players sink back into their "baseball card" level of play and that sinks the full team effort.

I've been on teams that were carried by a few stars (Stars and Scrubs) but the most rewarding teams have been lunch pail specials. No Stars, only Civics. When one feels like the team is simply outworking the other team - this is especially possible in ice hockey - it's an amazing feeling. In baseball, the equivalent is the classic "it's a different guy every night." 

We've been too many nights without a different guy stepping up but the Mojo will return because this Ms team simply has it.

Comments

1

...though I definitely share your annoyance that they wouldn't even consider a rental. I think they just mean they don't want to give up what little long-term sustainability they may have to get two months of a guy like Hamels, preferring, instead, to follow Dipoto's gameplan about converting prospects into club controls players.

In this specific instance, I flat out disagree with the notion that the rental isn't a good idea, but. .

2

It’s been far too long without a playoff team in this city. They darned well better not blow this by inaction. 

3
SeetheZee's picture

Whoa, hold on there. Saying the Ms have good Team Mojo and saying they should stand pat (a very non-Gillick phrase BTW) at the deadline doesn't add up. Every competitive big league club needs/wants/thinks it deserves a shot in the arm at the deadline.

As always to bring in something of real value at the deadline, one must trade (controllable young) quality to get (expensive older) quality. In the case of the Ms, the best controllable talent includes: Diaz, Gamel, Gonzalez, Hanager, Healy?, Heredia?, Pazos...throw in Festa and Vogelbach? from the 40-man as big league ready. Add prospect darlings Lewis, White, Carlson and the endless supply of surprising bullpen talent our system coughs up and there's more than enough juice. 

There's no way I'm trading Diaz (at least not this season as that would mess with the Mojo), Gonzalez or Haniger. I think trading Pazos would be a mistake too given the lack of left handed talent in the system. But any one of the other guys could be replaced relatively easily.

And to clarify, I'm not suggesting we clean house with the big league talent. But by all means use some of it to bring in the right guy(s).

4

Yankees – Sonny Gray

Cubs – Jose Quintana

Dodgers – Yu Darvish

Astros – Justin Verlander (August)

Red Sox – Eduardo Nunez

 That was 2017. 

Those teams have brands.  Somehow they have the goods to trade desite frequently doing it.  Meanwhile the M's never have the depth to deal.  Umm....okay.  If that's the case, then let's just get to tanking already and strike gold at the top of the draft every year like the (used-to-be) Lastros and Expos..er, Nationals did. 

7

But, of course, that inefficiency has always been there....given the right slowball pitcher.  You likely know that better than anybody. Interestingly, if you're not a Moyer then you tend to be discounted if you are of that template.  Maddux was of another class, so he doesn't get lumped in here.

Mike Cuellar, anybody? 

During the heyday years of the Orioles, '69-'73, Jim Palmer was the darling of the staff.  Baseball historians remember him as such today.  For those 5 years, Palmer was 99-42, running ERA+'s of 126-155.  He won one Cy.  Cuellar was 103-53 over the same time period, with ERA+'s of 105-149...and he also won a Cy.  But he gets discounted.  Cuellar was, of course, a lefty slurvy-screwgie-ephus type of guy.  Heck, when you write Off Speed II, he might deserve a whole chapter!  :)

So then, who is the discounted foshballer that we can get cheap today?

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tjm's picture

. . . without an obvious answer. Maybe DiPo already cornered the market on soft-tossers who are any good!

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tjm's picture

Guy threw everything. I wonder if the modern emphasis on constant release point has robbed us of a lot of interesting pitchers. I could completely see Felix going full Cuellar and succeeding.

11

...currently expendable if we can bring in a controlled starter (easier him than Felix). He’s solid and under control, a good replacement for a team looking longer term if their high priced ace is not truly being fully utilized. Not the key to a deal, and money probably gets accounted for, but certainly an option for consideration.

We do need someone to spread the load out until October, so either we get a cheap rental or dive into the Erasmo/MiLB pile. But if you can replace Leake with, oh, DeGrom... the playoff rotation is hugely upgraded and the longer regular season rotation either stays pat or takes a minor step forward.

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